The Evolve Workplace Wellbeing Podcast
The Evolve Workplace Wellbeing Podcast
Supporting people with disabling long-term health conditions to sustain work
This month Professor Kevin Daniels, who leads the University of East Anglia's Workplace Wellbeing Research team, kicks off the Evolve Workplace Wellbeing podcast series by talking with Emma Mitchell, Talent Director at EY. They discuss what works in supporting people with disabling long-term health conditions to stay in work, based on recent research by Helen Musgrove and Emma's personal experience.
This podcast is part of a toolkit of free, evidence-informed workplace wellbeing resources provided by the Workplace Wellbeing Research Team based at the University of East Anglia, in the UK. You can find the resources on www.evolveworkplacewellbeing.org
00:00:05:02 - 00:00:37:08
Helen Fitzhugh
Welcome to the Evolve Workplace Wellbeing Podcast. This podcast is part of the toolkit of free evidence-informed workplace wellbeing resources provided by the Workplace Wellbeing Research Team, based at the University of East Anglia in the UK. You can find the resources on www.evolveworkplacewellbeing.org The contents of the toolkit draw upon cutting edge multi-disciplinary research on workplace wellbeing, including insider insights and case studies.
00:00:38:06 - 00:01:06:00
Helen Fitzhugh
We want to help you take evidence informed action to help your business evolve and thrive. Every six weeks, a member of our team will introduce you to a new piece of research and to someone whose life experience puts a human face on that same research topic. This month, Professor Kevin Daniels, who leads our workplace wellbeing research team at UEA, kicks off the Evolve Workplace Wellbeing podcast by talking with Emma mitchell, Talent Director at EY about what works to support people with disabling long term health condition stay in work.
00:01:15:10 - 00:01:17:10
Kevin Daniels
Thank you, Helen. Good morning, Emma. How are you?
00:01:18:05 - 00:01:22:09
Emma Mitchell
Morning. I'm good. It's lovely to be with you. So thank you.
00:01:22:10 - 00:01:49:04
Kevin Daniels
No it’s fab to have you on. So, for our listener, it's fair to say we have a bit of history, which is the genesis of this conversation, in that a piece of research conducted at UEA by Helen Musgrove was supported by a EY, and you were very instrumental in supporting that research as well. So hence our conversation today around this topic.
00:01:49:04 - 00:01:58:05
Kevin Daniels
So might be useful to start off with asking about why your interest in this particular topic? What brought you to it?
00:01:59:20 - 00:02:32:19
Emma Mitchell
And so first off, I've been working in HR and talent for over 25 years, so I've always been interested in matters relating to recruitment, retention, diversity, equity, inclusion. It then became, my connection to disabling long term health conditions became a little bit more personal about seven years ago when I got a virus from which I've never recovered. I was eventually diagnosed with something called ME - Myalgic encephalitis - or chronic fatigue.
It's an energy limiting condition. So in a very short space of time, my energy capacity was reduced to about 15 to 25% of its pre-virus levels. Another symptom is something called brain fog, which I'll share with you now, because what that means is I can lose my way in sentences and I can forget words. So please bear with me if that if that happens and I've got a few notes to help me along the way as well.
00:03:04:15 - 00:03:36:24
Emma Mitchell
But essentially, that experience led me to go online and connect with other people, lots of people with ME, but lots of people with long term health conditions, living with long term health conditions generally. And I discovered a lot of people had had challenging experiences in relation to work. There were lots of people and lots of people desperate to work, lots of, you know, lots of hugely talented people with value to give.
00:03:37:22 - 00:04:10:20
Emma Mitchell
But too many had been unable to work, they, they said, because of unsupportive workplaces. So, I was curious and wanted to do something about that. With my HR hat on I see lots of untapped an untapped talent pool. From my personal lived experience, I feel a real calling in relation to, well, you know, how can we understand and learn what works and what we can do better in relation to helping people with disabling long term health conditions stay in work. So I was delighted.
00:04:10:20 - 00:04:14:24
Emma Mitchell
I'm so grateful and just delighted with the work with yourself and Helen Musgrove.
00:04:15:13 - 00:04:36:10
Kevin Daniels
Great, great. Thanks. I suppose the thing is, there’s a lot of commonalities, isn’t there in between the experiences of people with long term health conditions, regardless of the condition and in their experiences. Can you, can you share some of those kind of conversations you've had with people and your own personal experiences?
00:04:36:10 - 00:05:08:19
Emma Mitchell
I mean, yeah, there is. I mean, obviously there's this kind of two sides because on one side you've got, you know, everybody every health condition is different and how it impacts everybody is different and unique. However, as you say, there's a lot of commonality along that. So I'll talk a little bit about energy limiting conditions. So it's something that probably the majority of people won't be familiar with, but actually is something that about a third of people, disabled people, live with.
00:05:09:03 - 00:05:34:21
Emma Mitchell
It's the key feature of ME and long-covid and other and other illnesses, as you know. And it manifests itself in things like brain fog and things like energy limitation. We get something called payback. So I'm hoping today I'm going to sound on form, but there will be a consequence for me doing this activity with you today, which will be tomorrow and the day after.
00:05:34:21 - 00:05:45:21
Emma Mitchell
And I think those kind of features are not what people usually understand in relation to health conditions and disabilities generally.
00:05:46:11 - 00:05:56:11
Kevin Daniels
And you mentioned there, this idea of fluctuation of symptoms that every day is not the same. And some days you can do things and other days you can't.
00:05:56:11 - 00:06:20:00
Emma Mitchell
Yes. Yeah. So there’s trends over a period of time. So say three years ago I could not have this conversation. I could not manage this. And my days were very similar then. So I have set whereas now I can manage this, I can manage to walk the dog. There's more that I'm able to manage.
00:06:20:00 - 00:06:45:16
Emma Mitchell
However, there's still a degree of variability within each day. One of the things I have to do, so I have to think about is it a high energy activity and is there a degree of flexibility about when it needs to be done. So this I will prepare. I will take days to prepare for this before and after.
00:06:45:16 - 00:07:01:11
Emma Mitchell
Yeah, it's just an aspect of managing the condition and we know how to do it. You know, I've been living with this for seven years. You know, most people know their health condition the best and they know how to they they learn. We learn often through painful experience, but we learn how to manage it.
00:07:01:20 - 00:07:08:24
Kevin Daniels
So I guess if you can shorten the amount of time it takes to learn nuts about that, that's that's a win really, isn't it?
00:07:08:24 - 00:07:17:13
Emma Mitchell
Yeah. I mean, I'm still learning after seven years. I wish. I wish I had a way to accelerate that process, but I'm quite stubborn.
00:07:17:13 - 00:07:38:16
Kevin Daniels
You mentioned you mentioned long Covid there, and I think for a lot of people then the idea of energy limiting conditions and long term health conditions has become a little bit more salient and noticeable because of the discourse around long covid. But could you give us an idea of the size of the problem?
00:07:40:14 - 00:07:42:06
Emma Mitchell
In relation to long Covid?
00:07:42:06 - 00:07:50:05
Kevin Daniels
In relation to what kind of energy limiting conditions pre and post COVID? If you've got any idea about what that was like?
00:07:50:05 - 00:08:21:14
Emma Mitchell
Yeah, I mean, we know so we know that too. This is data that's come from our data that's been published. So there's been about 2.3 million people in the UK living or have lived with long COVID, about 342,000 of those. It's impacted their ability to carry out their day to day activities significantly. So it's a that is those are big numbers.
00:08:22:15 - 00:08:46:12
Kevin Daniels
Right? They are indeed. That's true. In relation to the scale of the problem and the conversations you alluded to, any things that people mention about about the impacts and the scale of the impact mean, I mean indeed the effects on workplaces?
00:08:46:12 - 00:09:21:11
Emma Mitchell
Yes. Well, actually there's a couple of things I was looking at things that people have written to me because because I have written a few things and so there are things that people have written to me, too. So, for example, “it's a lottery out there. I have to pretend I have no disability, which results in much pain.” And that really resonates with the research that shows that 33% of people who live with a disabling long term health condition choose not to disclose their work, which is a real it's a that's a real challenge.
00:09:21:23 - 00:09:41:02
Emma Mitchell
There's somebody else: “I've always tried to hide how much it affects me. In the past year, I felt defeated. It got the better of me. I still have never gone into total detail with the team on how much of a daily struggle things really can be. They see a smile and no one knows what's going on and how I really feel.”
00:09:42:12 - 00:09:59:24
Emma Mitchell
So those that somebody who's in the group who's talking, I talking at work. So in in the two thirds who were talking about it. But you can also see there's still a big aspect that's that's hidden then that that's that's that's challenging for, you know for humans at work.
00:10:00:12 - 00:10:10:15
Kevin Daniels
Yes. Because of course one of the things come from Helen Musgrove's research was non-disclosure. If there's any support available from your employer, if you don't disclose, you cannot access that support.
00:10:10:15 - 00:10:37:12
Emma Mitchell
So Exactly. Exactly. And I thought I thought that it's just so insightful and it absolutely demonstrates the importance of having an inclusive culture that creates the environment of safety to feel that you can talk about your condition without judgment. Without judgment.
00:10:37:12 - 00:11:12:08
Kevin Daniels
Okay. Okay. So that kind of leads on to this idea around safety and being able to disclose and not feel stigmatized. But what would you say, you know, in relation to workplaces? What are what are the key issues that EDI managers, HR managers, OH, those responsible for occupational health, should be should be looking to turn to, to benefit from, if you like, what are the resources out there or the levers that employers can use?
00:11:13:19 - 00:11:49:01
Emma Mitchell
Well, I think if we look at issues, I'd say understanding the context of stigma. I think that is an issue. You know, we often see portrayal or perception of people with long term health conditions as work avoidant or lazy. You know, TV depictions or newspaper articles of, you know, so-called benefit scroungers. A very often people who are described as pretending to be ill, you know, with either with a walking stick or something.
00:11:49:01 - 00:12:18:24
Emma Mitchell
That's a that's the context that we we're operating in. Secondly is then this I think this point about lack of understanding around disability generally. So I think when when people think about disability, they think of fixed and they think of physical, they don't think of invisible. So did I say invisible or visible? They think fixed and they think visible.
00:12:19:24 - 00:12:48:01
Emma Mitchell
But the reality of long term health conditions is, is that they are invisible, they're fluctuating, they're unpredictable. Now, that means it's challenging to manage on a day to day basis, but it's also something for us to educate ourselves and be aware of, you know, things like energy limiting conditions that impact millions of people. The majority of us don't know what that is.
00:12:48:15 - 00:13:15:12
Emma Mitchell
We don't know about it. So I think understanding in relation to long term health conditions in that aspect is is important. I think the other issue generally is that just this just isn't on the agenda. I love Caroline Casey and her work with the valuable five hundred and she continually makes the challenge of disability inclusion, being the poor cousin in the DEI world and I would agree.
00:13:15:12 - 00:13:31:11
Emma Mitchell
I worry that in terms of long term health conditions, we’re like the poor cousin to the poor cousin. So real challenges. It's it's not on the agenda at given the scale of the problem it needs to be. So that's a daily challenge is about getting it on the agenda in the first place.
00:13:32:17 - 00:13:58:11
Kevin Daniels
Yes. Or maybe come back to how you would see how you want to see things evolve and develop in the future later on in the conversation. But I think one of the things I'd like to pick up there, when you say, you know, people, yes, visible and fixed rather than fluxuating and invisible, are almost to suggest people see deficits rather than assets. Would that be fair?
00:14:01:01 - 00:14:21:22
Emma Mitchell
Yeah, that's absolutely right. I mean, so Kate Nash, another phenomenal advocate, she describes the soft bigotry of low expectations. And I think that I think that I don't think that can be said better, actually, because, you know. Yeah, I'm not to add more to that.
00:14:22:05 - 00:14:49:01
Kevin Daniels
No, no. And it's it's it's a it's a good phrase, isn't it, for conveying a lot of content in there as well. So we talked about some of the key issues and maybe just things that employers should look out more. Well, what is it helpful for employers to know or to do when it comes to the kind of practical action?
00:14:49:01 - 00:15:21:12
Emma Mitchell
Right. I'm going to talk about the practical action. Second, is that so? Right, Because in terms of if I was speaking to employers, now I speak to them as human beings first. And I think knowing and having a sense of the human experience of living with a disabled long term health condition is important to understand. So I went from one one month, I was running a triathlon and I was competing in a triathlon to a month later crawling to try and get to the bathroom.
00:15:22:14 - 00:15:57:01
Emma Mitchell
One week I was running around to the park with my children on one of our regular adventures. A week later, I'm not able to read a bedtime story and I'm listening to the click at the door and they're fading voices as somebody else is taking them on the adventures that we're supposed to have. From a work perspective, my working identity has always been around energy, drive, getting things done, making the impossible possible.
00:15:57:11 - 00:16:21:18
Emma Mitchell
And that was shattered for me. So there's there's trauma in terms of lost function, there's grief, loss, sadness. But on the other side of that, there's also like human transformation. You know, we're like the living embodiment of transformation and innovation. You have to turn yourselves upside down. You know, there's this thing about learning over seven years.
00:16:21:24 - 00:16:46:14
Emma Mitchell
I mean, literally, I have had to go through some form of transformation and that would be true, a lot of people with disabling health conditions. So I'd really ideally like employers to know to know that aspect. I’d really like them to know. There's one thing I'd like everybody to know is that we want to work. You know, we we've got value and talent to give.
00:16:46:14 - 00:17:09:08
Emma Mitchell
Yeah, on the practical side. So maybe this is that's a point to talk about Helen's research because I think it's so it's I think a phenomenal piece of work and absolutely resonates with everything that I've researched and understood too. So she she – oh go on.
00:17:09:08 - 00:17:26:06
Kevin Daniels
No, you were much closer to it than me in terms of the context of the people she was talking to and the people who, you know, those employers are participated in the research, so, so on.
00:17:27:07 - 00:18:02:18
Emma Mitchell
So, I've kind of given you some like I guess like a negative side of life, in order to provoke. But there is some great practice and there is some good practices around that. So Helen's research was really trying to understand that. And she she identified one that key finding in relation to inclusive cultures leads to psychological safety, which leads to employees feeling that they can talk about their health condition at work, which then unlocks resources as it is.
00:18:02:19 - 00:18:42:09
Emma Mitchell
That's a key finding. She she then identifies five drivers of sustaining, helping, supporting people to sustain work. So one is inclusive culture. Second is autonomous, flexible working. The third is empowered, educated line managers. A fourth was around individualized tailored adjustments and a fifth in relation to employee network. So I think if employees understand that and orientate their efforts around those five drivers, they absolutely will see results.
00:18:42:09 - 00:18:43:19
Emma Mitchell
They will see the benefits of that.
00:18:44:04 - 00:19:01:04
Kevin Daniels
And those things have to be interconnected as well because it's, you know, it's not much use having really good line managers if the culture isn't supportive of, you know, line managers being able to make those tailored adjustments because senior managers are saying, well, actually no, we can't you know, our business isn’t based on flexible working.
00:19:02:01 - 00:19:23:20
Emma Mitchell
Yeah, absolutely. And things like things like that. I mean, the employee network is a great example of that because if you've got if you if you're giving your employee network a platform to share stories, then your employee network is helping you to shift culture and is helping to educate managers. And yeah, so that's it. You know, it's a good example of that.
00:19:24:04 - 00:19:32:05
Kevin Daniels
So yeah, it's also a good example of how one thing can enable something else as well with a network enabling improvements in culture. So, so.
00:19:32:07 - 00:19:32:18
Emma Mitchell
Yes.
00:19:33:10 - 00:19:47:18
Kevin Daniels
Want to bring you back to, you know from this very optimistic view of employees can do things, all the things that get in the way that, you know, what are the kind of challenges employees have to overcome?
00:19:47:18 - 00:20:09:02
Emma Mitchell
I'll use and I'll use Helen's framework as a as a way to explore that. Maybe so. So if you think about inclusive culture, and I say that really lightly, but clearly, you know, shifting your culture is quite a massive undertaking and the work to ensure that what we want the culture to be and what the lived experience of it is, is never ending.
00:20:09:12 - 00:20:34:06
Emma Mitchell
So that systems, that's policies, that's processes, that's behaviors, so that that is challenging. It requires political will and it requires resources to make that happen. I think in terms of autonomous, flexible working, I know there will be people listening to this who say that not all work can be done flexibly, which is which is which is right. Truth.
00:20:34:08 - 00:21:09:00
Emma Mitchell
Not all work can be done flexibly. But what I've seen and what other others have seen is what was possible during lockdown. And we've experienced doors literally closing and opportunities literally disappearing. And that's not because work has been, you know, genuinely there's genuine requirement for that work to be done in a fixed in-place way. It's because of preference and it's because of tradition.
00:21:10:02 - 00:21:36:04
Emma Mitchell
So I would make a challenge back to the challenge in relation to that. You mentioned managers and Helen mentions managers. Obviously there's inconsistency in terms of managers experience, skills and attitudes. But again, a solution to that is in relation to education and also a solution to that is in terms of an accessible, experienced HR Person. I think the final challenge is in relation to the complexity of health conditions.
00:21:36:04 - 00:22:05:16
Emma Mitchell
So we mentioned before health conditions are different. Everybody's experience of a health condition will then be unique and different too. So that's complicated to manage. And I think that's especially complicated to manage in a context of centralized HR and centralized processes. So there's we need to find a way and organizations need to find a way to allow for innovation and flex within that within that context.
00:22:05:16 - 00:22:31:17
Kevin Daniels
I guess a lot of that flex will come from from dialogue, won't it, between the different stakeholders involved and sometimes perhaps even involving you sort of health professionals as well as, as you know, as has been tried a kind of a state level in in some countries and kind of in Denmark where you got sort of whole regions where they have put in place initiatives.
00:22:31:17 - 00:22:54:10
Kevin Daniels
Again, you know, healthcare professionals talking to employers, talking to employees with conditions to try and get a kind of all stakeholders, seeing everything from every possible angle to try and get people back to work. And it's about those tailored solutions which come from that dialogue as well. The other thing that is you mentioned in that culture has to be worked on.
00:22:54:10 - 00:23:15:15
Kevin Daniels
I think we know that when we're talking about things like safety culture or, you know, sort of improvement, quality cultures and things like that. And I think it's important to get that, you know, get that message across that EDI culture is something needs to be continually worked at, wellbeing culture is something, you know, if you otherwise it slips back, doesn't it?
00:23:16:08 - 00:23:43:11
Emma Mitchell
It does. It does. And it says, you know, it's a thousand things. It's it's ongoing, 5000 things, you know, and any and anybody working in EDI is going to know that. It's it's it's never ending. It's never ending. But shifts do happen. Shifts do happen, but it needs to be on the agenda. And that the will and the determination needs to be there and the resources too.
00:23:43:15 - 00:23:54:06
Kevin Daniels
Yeah, I like that you mentioned political will. Yes, there as well. People have got to want to do it and realize that there's a lot of influencing going on as well. So. Yeah.
00:23:54:08 - 00:23:55:17
Emma Mitchell
Yeah, absolutely.
00:23:55:17 - 00:24:17:22
Kevin Daniels
And you talked about some of the challenges. Let's go back to being optimistic again. And Emma, so what are the benefits in all of this for, for employers? There are clearly there are benefits for for employees and we don't necessarily need to go into those. But you can if you want to. But well, you know what what's the business case, I suppose?
00:24:19:21 - 00:24:42:03
Emma Mitchell
So. I'm going to quote again and it links to this leadership political will point as well. “So one does remember tenderly those in leadership positions who take the time to ask what accommodations are needed and work to provide them.” I will never forget, I will never forget those people that have supported me anyway. I know in terms of sustaining work.
00:24:42:03 - 00:25:06:12
Emma Mitchell
And if it wasn't for them, I would not have a roof over my you know, I would we would have lost our home. And that's the case for a lot of people with disabling health conditions. That's a genuine fear. We live with that financial insecurity constantly. So you've got that loyalty from the individual and then that performance goes out, their engagement goes up, and that then impacts to the wider team.
00:25:06:12 - 00:25:30:16
Emma Mitchell
The wider team sees that you look, you're looking after people actually the wider team might be benefiting from some of the adjustments that you're put in place too. So who is not going to benefit from clearer communications or better planning? You know, we’ll all benefit from that? I think with that, we also can see from research, it shows that recruitment improves, retention improves, reputation improves.
00:25:31:11 - 00:25:59:10
Emma Mitchell
I think there's something I'd add to the research as well, which is around valuable skills. So on top of professional experience, things like active learning, innovation, harnessing technology, problem solving, influencing those are skills that people living with disabling long term health conditions, we use that as part of our day to day because we have to navigate the obstacles that we’re faced with on a day to day basis.
00:25:59:18 - 00:26:09:20
Emma Mitchell
And those are the same skills that the World Economic Forum has in its top ten of critical skills for the future. So I'd say this there's lots of benefits.
00:26:10:04 - 00:26:23:21
Kevin Daniels
And I like that you mentioned benefits for for other people and the wider workplace culture, too, you know, because, you know, if other people see an individual is being supported through a tough time, that does send a very strong signal.
00:26:23:21 - 00:26:53:10
Emma Mitchell
And it does. It does. I know there's also, you know, sometimes a concern in terms of perceived advantage or preferential treatment, different treatment that somebody has been given. But if you've got a culture that understands equity, then then that that's less of an issue. And you've got a culture where, you know, the employee with the health condition feels safe to talk to team members about their health condition, when that understanding is there, then that becomes less of an issue and less of a concern.
00:26:56:19 - 00:27:07:11
Kevin Daniels
Also is there a sense where you you think that there's actually improvements in line managers as well, you know for the wider benefits of the team and how they manage other people?
00:27:08:18 - 00:27:33:00
Emma Mitchell
Are absolutely 100%. In fact actually Helen’s work, so what Helen identified, what the employees that she interviewed talked about and HR representatives and line managers. So these are the things that a great line manager needs to be to support somebody with a disabling long term health condition.
00:27:33:11 - 00:27:53:11
Emma Mitchell
So empathetic, flexible, listen to and follow up on actions, support job crafting and additional support with no micromanagement or no assumptions about capability. I think everybody would like that. That sounds like the dream manager to me.
00:27:54:05 - 00:27:56:24
Kevin Daniels
Is like the kind of list on your MBA course, isn't it?
00:27:57:17 - 00:28:09:11
Emma Mitchell
You know, But it is. It is, you know, and those of us that are lucky enough to have managers and bosses who are like that, you know, that that's the norm, that we should all be working, working towards.
00:28:09:11 - 00:28:26:13
Kevin Daniels
Okay, great. So I mentioned I was going to ask this question earlier, but what what would you see as developments in the future and what kind of final message would you like to to leave the people who listen to this podcast with.
00:28:28:10 - 00:28:49:03
Emma Mitchell
So in terms of developments in the future, I really hope there's more research. You know, building on Helen's great work. I really hope, you know, my my ask for everybody would be, please just read that fantastic research. And if you drive efforts around those five key drivers, you will see positive benefits. I'd say something, so I'm going to quote, you know.
00:28:49:10 - 00:29:09:15
Emma Mitchell
So Benjamin Franklin said “there are two certainties in life, death and taxes.” I think there are three certainties in life. We will all get sick, every single one of us. We are human beings. We will all get sick at some stage or other. We will be we will be living with every certainty as we grow older, disabling long term health conditions.
00:29:09:24 - 00:29:39:08
Emma Mitchell
The only variable is around timing and the extent and the degree of impact. So this is this isn't about other people. This is about this is about all of us. So if we all do more, then we will all benefit. And we've got an aging working population. So economically we need to do more anyway. So so that that would be the kind of the thought I would leave I'd leave you with.
00:29:39:21 - 00:30:02:21
Kevin Daniels
Okay, that's great. Has been a pleasure. I will mention at this point the research Helen did will be on our website within certainly by mid-January. Yes. And that's a joint report between EY and UEA so look out for that and there'll be social media's coming out of EY as well. So I'll plug the research there and it's just.
00:30:02:21 - 00:30:05:15
Emma Mitchell
Can we say a few thank you’s in relation to the research?
00:30:05:15 - 00:30:06:13
Kevin Daniels
Yes, go ahead.
00:30:07:02 - 00:30:29:15
Emma Mitchell
All right. Because I think I really only want to say thank you to you and Kevin Delaney in terms of actually creating the opportunity for it to come about in the first place. All of the organizations and people that participated, you know, they gave themselves and were occasionally vulnerable within that, too. And so we’re really grateful for the time and energy given given to that.
00:30:29:15 - 00:30:44:13
Emma Mitchell
And we know how valuable that is in the context of energy limiting conditions. And finally, a massive thank you to Helen Musgrove. I think she's just done a phenomenal and she's done a phenomenal piece of research, and I hope it will make a difference. It will make a difference.
00:30:44:13 - 00:30:57:09
Kevin Daniels
But that's brilliant. And I would love to thank you Emma, both for helping facilitate Helen's research and all the support you gave her in getting that done. And also, that's been fab to talk to you again. Thank you for your insights and sharing your experiences.
00:31:00:03 - 00:31:01:18
Emma Mitchell
Thank you. The pleasure’s mine. Thank you.
00:31:01:22 - 00:31:08:23
Kevin Daniels
Thank you.
00:31:08:23 - 00:31:34:05
Helen Fitzhugh
So that's a big thank you again to Professor Kevin Daniels and Emma Mitchell and just a reminder, if you would like to find out more about Helen's research as discussed here, please visit www.evolveworkplacewellbeing.org Please join us in our ongoing exploration of workplace wellbeing, research and lived experience in our monthly podcast as we go forwards.
00:31:34:05 - 00:31:58:22
Helen Fitzhugh
This podcast was produced by the University of East Anglia with the support of UEA Broadcast House, Norwich Business School, RAND Europe and all the members of the Workplace Wellbeing Research team. You can find out more about our team as a whole, our research and use our practical, business focused resources for improving organized emotional wellbeing at www.evolveworkplacewellbeing.org Thank you!
