Rebuilding and reimagining context and connection at work

In this episode, Dr Helen Fitzhugh of the Evolve team speaks with Dr Laura Byrne, lecturer in Human Resource Management and Organisational Behaviour at the Leadership and Management department at Aston Business School, Aston University.  She wrote a PhD thesis on whole-organisation wellbeing strategies in context and shares here useful insights on what makes these successful (or not!) Laura's refreshing and hopeful take on workplace wellbeing includes paying attention to context and the future, as well as focussing on human connection.

She is also carrying out a study on the wellbeing of people professionals and if you are interested, you can sign up to take part here: https://forms.office.com/e/QW0vZWjZiq  (Please note this link will only be live as long as the project is running, you may come across this podcast after the project has closed). 

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:28:19

Helen Fitzhugh

Welcome to the Evolve Workplace Wellbeing podcast. This podcast is part of a toolkit of free, evidence informed workplace wellbeing resources provided by the Workplace Wellbeing Research team at the University of East Anglia in the UK. You can find the resources on evolveworkplacewellbeing.org

00:00:28:21 - 00:00:48:22

Helen Fitzhugh

Hello, this is Dr Helen Fitzhugh of the Evolve team at the University of East Anglia. Today I'll be speaking with Dr Laura Byrne, lecturer in Human Resource Management and Organisational Behaviour at the Leadership and Management department at Aston Business School, Aston University in the UK. We'll be speaking about wellbeing strategies in organisations today. Welcome, Laura.

00:00:48:24 - 00:00:53:02

Laura Byrne

Thank you, Helen, very much for having me on the podcast today.

00:00:53:04 - 00:01:01:06

Helen Fitzhugh

It's lovely to have you. To start off, could you tell us a little bit about your career journey so far and your professional interest in workplace wellbeing? 

00:01:01:06 - 00:01:36:16

Laura Byrne

Yeah. So, as you mentioned, I'm currently a lecturer at Aston University and I also did my PhD, at Aston University, where I explored how wellbeing strategies are defined, enacted and experienced within organisations, essentially looking at how wellbeing moves from, interventions and initiatives to something that's more integrated and strategic. More recently, I was honoured to receive the CIPD Professor Mick Marchington research grant which supports early career researchers, and important issues in HRM.

00:01:36:18 - 00:02:03:23

Laura Byrne

So this grant is allowing me to work on what I think is quite an overlooked area, which is the wellbeing of people professionals themselves. So this is HR Practitioners, wellbeing leads who design and deliver wellbeing initiatives within their organisations. So I think we talk a lot about employee wellbeing, and rightly so, but we rarely stop to ask how are the people doing who are who are implementing these programmes?

00:02:04:00 - 00:02:26:19

Laura Byrne

These individuals often sit right in the middle of organisational tensions and thinking about what the organisation needs, what employees need. Sometimes they have to take on the emotional burden of employees, challenges and so on. So I think it's it's really important now to try and understand how they manage those tensions. And, how they feel about their roles.

00:02:26:22 - 00:02:32:10

Laura Byrne

The extent to which it gives them sense of meaning and purpose as well, within their organisations.

00:02:32:12 - 00:02:52:03

Helen Fitzhugh

Yeah. I bet there are a lot of nodding heads listening to this podcast right now. Yeah, that is a difficult role today. Yeah. And, so I been very glad that you're you're looking into that. So I think I'll probably come back to that further down the line. But, I wondered if you could, first of all, kind of take me back to your PhD study a little bit.

00:02:52:05 - 00:02:59:19

Helen Fitzhugh

It involved case studies on wellbeing strategies within organisations. What were you really interested in studying and why?

00:02:59:21 - 00:03:28:02

Laura Byrne

So I looked at whole organisational wellbeing strategy, how this is defined, enacted and experienced. I wanted to understand contextual factors. So that’s whether that of global events such as the pandemic, the cost of living crisis, societal pressure factors, contextual factors within the organisation and individual level factors, how all of these feed into what the organisation chooses to do for wellbeing.

00:03:28:04 - 00:03:55:23

Laura Byrne

So rather than evaluating single initiatives, like mindfulness training or flexible working, my aim was to uncover how all these pieces fit together within a strategic multi-level framework. So yeah, I was interested in how people talk about wellbeing strategy, how organisations implement it, and how employees feel it affects them. I chose this topic because I felt that existing research often isolates wellbeing initiatives.

00:03:56:00 - 00:04:32:21

Laura Byrne

And I noticed a gap in understanding how wellbeing is understood as this more, evolving, living phenomenon. I was also motivated by understanding two different logics. So within this wellbeing space, we have this business case logic that organisations implement wellbeing because it will impact productivity and profit and retention and, talent attraction and so on. But we also have this community caring logic where wellbeing is implemented because it's just the right thing to do because we should just genuinely care.

00:04:32:23 - 00:04:55:15

Laura Byrne

So I was really interested in, in looking at the wellbeing strategy and how these two logics interact with each other or not. And, what that means. And yeah, I've been long fascinated about organisational structure and leadership and, and just the general topic of, how do we make workplaces better for the people that are working within them?

00:04:55:17 - 00:05:19:00

Helen Fitzhugh

Yeah, it's a fascinating area. And you're talking our language because I noticed you said evolving organisations there and of course we’re on the evolve workplace wellbeing podcast here. Yeah. A lot of the research that our team of have done, as well, is pointed in that direction of, of looking at all the different layers of what makes the everyday work experience for people different or better.

00:05:19:02 - 00:05:25:15

Helen Fitzhugh

So yeah, I think it very much chimes with, with what we've been doing as well. So what are your key findings from that research?

00:05:25:18 - 00:06:01:05

Laura Byrne

So one of the things that I found was that wellbeing strategies are quite complex and dynamic. So there isn't one single way to do it well.  My three case study organisations all did wellbeing slightly differently, and that was because they had different contextual factors that they they needed to contend with. So in one organisation, for example, they were particularly affected by the pandemic and what that meant for people working within that organisation, whereas the other two weren't so affected by that, because they were able to do more remote work

00:06:01:05 - 00:06:25:01

Laura Byrne

than the one organisation and then I found that organisations had to when they were doing a wellbeing strategy, they had to respond to crises that were happening that were affecting their employees at the time. So at the time, we had a cost of living crisis, really. We had the spike in, in electricity bills, for example. People were worrying about that.

00:06:25:03 - 00:06:46:17

Laura Byrne

People were worrying about some of the more, geopolitical crises that were going on and this was impacting their wellbeing as well. There was a lot of talk about wellbeing on social media, and this was influencing what organisations were choosing to do. So I found that wellbeing for me isn't something that you can design once and then implement.

00:06:46:19 - 00:07:14:20

Laura Byrne

It is, it's something that is constantly evolving. It needs to be reviewed, adapted, renewed organisations need to recalibrate as they're scanning the environment and also what's going on within the organisation and, individuals. And then another key finding that came through, was this tension between the business case and the community caring case, logics for wellbeing.

00:07:14:22 - 00:07:40:15

Laura Byrne

So on the one hand, organisations are really interested in the productivity and engagement benefits of wellbeing, the business case. And on the other, there is this caring human side and the idea that we should support wellbeing simply because it's the right thing to do. What I found was when these two logics are out of balance, so when employees believe that the organisation is implementing wellbeing just for the business case,

00:07:40:17 - 00:08:04:08

Laura Byrne

that can create a level of scepticism and cynicism. So one of my key findings and suggestions to practitioners and organisations is to think a bit more carefully about how you promote the reasons why you're doing wellbeing. I also found that that wellbeing needs to operate across multiple levels. So it's not just HR responsibility, for a series of standalone programmes,

00:08:04:08 - 00:08:37:24

Laura Byrne

it's something that needs to be built into organisational culture. Specified leadership reinforced through teams and experienced by individuals. So it's very, very multi-level. So in practical terms this means combining policy, structure at the top with good leadership behaviours in the middle, communication, tailored support for individuals and teams, wherever that's possible. So within my thesis, I explain that there are five key tenets of a wellbeing strategy.

00:08:38:00 - 00:09:07:08

Laura Byrne

The first is that it's integrated, contextually integrated. So it integrates with what's going on in the broader context and also what's going on within the organisation. So the organisation is also aligning with what's going on, for example with diversity and inclusion or cultural change and and so on. It's multi-level. So you have the it's implemented at the organisational level, leadership level, group team level, and individual level.

00:09:07:10 - 00:09:39:03

Laura Byrne

It's multi-domain, which means that organisations focus on physical, mental, social, financial, all these domains of wellbeing. But within that as well, we also, I also noticed that there is a focus on the deficit versus what I call the assets approach to wellbeing. So organisations might frame wellbeing as we're going to try to alleviate stress, depression, anxiety and so on.

00:09:39:09 - 00:10:04:04

Laura Byrne

But then on the other hand organisations, but this is much more rare, may frame wellbeing as this is about our relationships, our communications, our growth, sense of meaning and purpose and so on. So that is about the more positive, side of wellbeing and not just fixing problems. Then the fourth one is that organisations suggested that wellbeing strategy has to be tailorable.

00:10:04:06 - 00:10:32:02

Laura Byrne

So they suggest that what we need is not sort of individualized interventions, but an organisational approach that can be tailored to meet individual needs. And then the final tenet is that it's it's transient. So it's constantly evolving as a, as what I’ve touched on before as evolving to the needs of the organisation, how it's how it's integrated within context and the evolving needs of, of the people that they care for.

00:10:32:05 - 00:10:56:22

Laura Byrne

Yeah. So I think together, these sort of tenets can support organisations to create, an inclusive and, and adaptable strategy, which I think is really important in the, in the world of work today. Yeah. So I think in short, my key message would be that wellbeing isn't a programme or initiative, it's a living system. It grows and changes with people.

00:10:56:24 - 00:11:10:03

Laura Byrne

And I think the most effective wellbeing strategies are the ones that are co-created. Context sensitive and grounded in those notions of flourishing and genuine caring.

00:11:10:07 - 00:11:28:01

Helen Fitzhugh

Yeah. Now, a lot of that really, resonates with with the work we've been doing as well. And, it's quite funny because, I've done quite a lot of workshops on workplace wellbeing for organisations. And there's a point at which I kind of say, so here's the good news and the bad news. You're never done. Yeah, yeah.

00:11:28:02 - 00:11:51:11

Helen Fitzhugh

You know, actually, it's perhaps bad news because you think, oh, I, if I could just get that pinned down, I would have a wonderful wellbeing strategy. But actually it's all about responding to context. But it's good news because we've got that opportunity to continue building, growing, turning towards that assets focus and that driving focus, and keep doing that whatever happens.

00:11:51:11 - 00:12:18:14

Helen Fitzhugh

So, you know, adapting to the situation. So yeah, it's great to hear that from you as well. And that's coming out of your studies.  In academic research we have a thing where a lot of time, our case studies are confidential or we can't quite say who the organisations are, but I wondered if you had any kind of, suitably anonymized, real life examples of how practitioners could kind of learn from what you're doing and take it on in their own work.

00:12:18:16 - 00:12:52:10

Laura Byrne

Yeah. So my organisations were one very large public sector, one medium, private sector and then a very small private sector as well. So I had, and I chose three very different organisations because this enabled me to see where there are similarities so how to then theorize from that. So in terms of real life examples of how practitioners could learn, I feel that what practitioners could potentially use is something that I developed in my, thesis called a context theme map.

00:12:52:12 - 00:13:31:06

Laura Byrne

So when I produced my reports for, my organisations, I gave them a very, bespoke, tailored context theme map to say this is what has come through, from interviewing people within your organisation, in terms of the contextual factors that are impacting how they define, enact, and then experience wellbeing, and this context theme map, had, a global sort of events level, it had a societal level, so it was sort of like a nested map, then within that there was the organisation and then within that individual level themes.

00:13:31:08 - 00:14:15:13

Laura Byrne

And what I suggested to my, case study organisations was that they use this map as a living document. So where there are themes that change, such as the pandemic or, cost of living crisis, there may be new things at a global level, for example, that may emerge, such as the AI, in today's climate. So I suggested to use this as a living document to constantly re scan what's going on within the context, speak to employees, gather this sort of data to, you know, live researches, so that you can respond and think about how your wellbeing strategy might adapt to, to what's going on.

00:14:15:15 - 00:14:39:16

Laura Byrne

I think organisations need to really take this seriously, because people are worried about what's going on within the wider context. And I think that does impact work. Yeah. So I think this is a really useful thing to reflect on constantly. Another practical thing that practitioners could learn from the research is I just think the the importance of listening to the employee voice.

00:14:39:20 - 00:15:10:23

Laura Byrne

So across all case studies, employees and and practitioners emphasize how important it was to listen to the employee voice, to understand those individual needs and those individual perspectives. HR teams need to run these focus groups, prioritize one to ones and listening sessions, to co-create wellbeing strategies rather than it being created and delivered top down.  Within my thesis, I also developed a model called the perception action perception model.

00:15:10:23 - 00:15:38:13

Laura Byrne

And all this essentially says is that on the one side, you've got leaders and practitioners who have a perception of what wellbeing is, how it should be enacted, and what resources and tools they have, to enact it, and then they enact it. But on the other side, you have employee perceptions of what wellbeing is, how it should be enacted, and how, and what sorts of resources organisation have to do it.

00:15:38:15 - 00:16:08:15

Laura Byrne

And when these perceptions don't align, when there is a significant misalignment between those perceptions, then that's when we get, I feel scepticism and cynicism about what the organisation is doing. So this really speaks to the importance of communication. What do we all believe wellbeing is? What do we all think should be done? Do we all agree on the sorts of resources that we have to to address this?

00:16:08:17 - 00:16:45:17

Laura Byrne

So that needs to be communicated much more clearly. And, and if the organisation finds that employees are expecting something and they don't feel that they can respect that, then they need to communicate why. That was a big thing that that came through. I think one really, really interesting thing, and this again, was really spoke to the importance of understanding your people in the context within the organisation.  On sort of social media platforms, we have criticism of things such as Wellbeing Wednesdays, where people perhaps use Wednesdays to do something fun or put a bowl of fruit or something for the organisation.

00:16:45:17 - 00:17:19:03

Laura Byrne

But what I noticed came through within my research is that yeah, this is problematic if the organisation is not thinking about more cultural leadership factors, but in the one organisation they had Wellbeing Wednesday but the person who promoted this, who was the wellbeing practitioner, she was highly respected within this organisation. People felt that she really did genuinely care, that she advocated for them and spoke up for the for their voice, with leadership.

00:17:19:05 - 00:17:37:08

Laura Byrne

So when she put smoothies in the kitchen on Wellbeing Wednesday, employees felt that this was a cherry on the top, that it was a really sweet, nice thing to do, so it didn't backfire. Because of that sort of contextual point behind all of that. So I thought that was interesting.

00:17:37:14 - 00:17:54:17

Helen Fitzhugh

So I think that's really important to, to look at how contrasting it is. I think it's that it can highlight, can't it, oh, you think you're doing something really nice but for the rest of the time you treat me really badly. Yeah. You know that the highlight, the difference it can make can lead to that cynicism and things like that.

00:17:54:17 - 00:17:55:06

Helen Fitzhugh

Yeah.

00:17:55:08 - 00:18:26:24

Laura Byrne

Absolutely. Yeah. So I think it is just recognizing the different contexts within your organisation. And if, if you do need to address some of those core wellbeing needs, such as culture and communication and safety, then I think you're going to struggle if you try to address that with, with smoothies on a Wednesday. But if people feel that those things are being addressed, then it might be okay and it might be seen as a nice thing, a nice additional thing that that's being done.

00:18:27:01 - 00:18:53:12

Laura Byrne

Yeah. So, again, for me, the key takeaways are treat wellbeing strategy as a journey. Co-create and communicate. Remember that wellbeing is linked to things like leadership, capability, diversity and inclusion, what the organisation's doing for cultural design. And so it's not a separate thing and yet just continue to scan and realign and recalibrate with what it is that you're doing.

00:18:53:16 - 00:19:15:18

Helen Fitzhugh

Oh, it's interesting isn't it? How for wellbeing in a way that the advice is the same as for most things in organisations going into the uncertain future? You know, that idea of of resilience in organisations being built on horizon scanning, knowing what's coming, knowing what your people think about it and what their skills and assets are and where you might need to upskill.

00:19:15:20 - 00:19:34:14

Helen Fitzhugh

It's exactly the same for wellbeing as it is for product design. It's kind of, having that sense of looking to the future and, and that being, I suppose, accelerated in the 21st century and the uncertainty we’re experiencing. So yeah, I find it fascinating how it all ties in and makes sense. 

00:19:34:20 - 00:19:59:06

Laura Byrne

Definitely. I think, HR practitioners and leaders are going to increasingly need to be more future focused and thinking about how their sort of vision and values and, of what good work might look like. It will influence what it is they choose to do now and recognize that we have so much uncertainty, and we are not able to really see what's coming.

00:19:59:06 - 00:20:14:13

Laura Byrne

And it's about developing, and building those skills of relationality, I think within within that to, to support each other, to be agile, to to cope with that uncertainty. I think it's really important.

00:20:14:15 - 00:20:25:00

Helen Fitzhugh

There were some challenges for people taking forward wellbeing strategies. I wonder what you thought the main ones of these are and how we might help people overcome them.

00:20:25:02 - 00:20:45:17

Laura Byrne

Yeah, I think one of the biggest challenges and, I know when I have spoken to organisations about this, it's hard to, for them to think about well how do I overcome this? Is that the biggest challenge is the ongoing tension between the business case and the caring case for employee wellbeing, because it's just the way we’re set up to think about this.

00:20:45:23 - 00:21:16:07

Laura Byrne

So yeah, I mean, on the one hand, organisations promote wellbeing because of productivity and retention and, and and performance and so on. And that's all perfectly valid. But employees want to feel that their organisation genuinely cares about them as people. So I think it's about the challenge of this, is shifting our mindset, of seeing wellbeing as a means to performance, performance ends and to seeing wellbeing and that and the flourishing of people as an end in itself.

00:21:16:09 - 00:21:46:23

Laura Byrne

And I think if we view wellbeing and flourishing as an end in itself, then organisational success and efficiency and so on, will just come alongside that. It shouldn't be seen as as the end for which wellbeing is the means. And I think that requires a significant shift in thinking. Another one is that, linked to this is, is how do we how do we know if employees view wellbeing as a tick box exercise.

00:21:46:23 - 00:22:14:19

Laura Byrne

And again, this comes back to communications, social relations. And recognizing that if we put performance first and if we use wellbeing to try and promote the organisations that people will see it as a tick box, exercise, and, and often this is done in a really well intentioned way. What organisations feel well, this is just win win. We're getting you know, we're promoting our organisation.

00:22:14:19 - 00:22:38:22

Laura Byrne

We're attracting talent. We're also doing things for employee wellbeing. So it's a win win, but it can backfire if employees feel that they are promoting it just to attract talent or just to look good as an organisation or just to to tick a box. So employees need to see that it's been embedded in everyday practices such as leadership behaviours, team dynamic.

00:22:39:03 - 00:23:17:19

Laura Byrne

It's about creating a culture where people feel seen and heard, and supported every day. Not just, on awareness days or awareness weeks. I think that is a challenge. Yeah, it's very important. And then I think what I saw was as well, was this lack of alignment across perceiving what wellbeing is. So I've mentioned this before and how it should be enacted and what we do get, and I think it's important to make this point as well, is that we do get unfair expectations as well with, from employees.

00:23:17:19 - 00:23:43:19

Laura Byrne

And sometimes I think one of the problems within our culture is that many people see wellbeing as some sort of something that's individual to them. It's individualistic. It's about what I can get from the organisation or what I can do for my wellbeing. And people forget how interconnected we all are, whether that's we’re interconnected through what's going on globally.

00:23:43:21 - 00:24:06:03

Laura Byrne

We're interconnected by societal pressures, we're interconnected in our places of work, and people forget that for wellbeing to really flourish, we need to focus on our social relations. We need to think of wellbeing as something that's not just about what I can gain, but what we can all do to improve our social relations so that we can all flourish together.

00:24:06:03 - 00:24:32:13

Laura Byrne

I do believe that, you know, the wellbeing of the individual is dependent on the wellbeing and flourishing of all, I think that's a challenge because people do very much focus on, their own, wellbeing. And it's it and it's a challenge for organisations to, to see individuals doing that and to push back against that and to promote this idea of, of social relations.

00:24:32:16 - 00:24:59:14

Laura Byrne

And again, I think the, another challenge is that things are constantly changing. We have so much uncertainty. So to constantly rescan I think wellbeing needs to be a, dedicated role, and with a team, within organisations if possible. I think I see a lot of wellbeing practitioners who are doing wellbeing on the side, on top of, their main job.

00:24:59:16 - 00:25:08:21

Laura Byrne

It's so complex and so important. I think, it needs to be taken more seriously by organisations.

00:25:08:23 - 00:25:26:16

Helen Fitzhugh

We're kind of back full circle to the Marchington grant you're doing at the moment. So, yeah, this idea of speaking with, HR practitioners, the wellbeing leads and talking about their wellbeing and how to perhaps improve that.

00:25:26:18 - 00:25:55:22

Laura Byrne

Yeah. I think what I do see from, the participants I've spoken to so far is that wellbeing practitioners do get to feel a sense of meaning and purpose from, from doing their role but they would like more support from their organisations. They would like to be taken more seriously. In many ways, people I’ve spoken to are very much realists.

00:25:55:24 - 00:26:22:10

Laura Byrne

They understand that they can't ask for an infinite amount of money and resources and so on, but they and they have to manage tensions. They they understand that some leaders are pretty much on board. Some aren't quite so on board. And so they have to manage those expectations and tensions. Yeah, I'll probably have much more to say about this in a, in a in a year's time when I've done a few more interviews.

00:26:22:14 - 00:26:25:20

Helen Fitzhugh

Great. Are you looking for any more interviews?

00:26:25:22 - 00:26:35:10

Laura Byrne

Yes. Trying to interview as many people as possible. I think I've got through about, ten at the moment. So, yeah, definitely looking for quite a few more.

00:26:35:12 - 00:26:42:18

Helen Fitzhugh

So if we put out the link to your call for participants, people could be in touch if it was within the time frame, you are still doing the research?

00:26:42:18 - 00:27:11:09

Laura Byrne

Yes, absolutely. There has been a lot of interest. I’ve found that while wellbeing practitioners are really keen to come and talk about this, I think it's important to hear their voice on this perspective. Because if we are going to improve organisations and the wellbeing of of people, we need to ensure that the people that are really fighting for that are heard and that their perspectives are, put forward because they're the ones doing the hard work in all of this.

00:27:11:09 - 00:27:30:22

Helen Fitzhugh

Yeah. So we've talked a little bit already about the future. We've talked, we've had AI, we've had resilience in the in the face of that uncertainty. Is there anything else that's sort of a pressing workplace issue that you think will come up and be apparent in the next decade?

00:27:30:24 - 00:28:02:08

Laura Byrne

So I think one of the most pressing issues will be rebuilding and reimagining this social connection at work. So as we've moved more to hybrid and remote working ways of working, I do think we risk losing some of the informal, everyday, interactions that support belonging and trust and, and a shared identity. So it's how do we maintain this sense of community when people are hidden and digital and disconnected?

00:28:02:10 - 00:28:27:24

Laura Byrne

How do we ensure that we have that human connection that I think we really, really need to push wellbeing forward within organisations? I also think we need to think more of wellbeing in terms of ethics. I think there is a need for us to really rethink authenticity and moral integrity, and what this means for us as interconnected individuals and interconnected organisations.

00:28:28:01 - 00:29:02:11

Laura Byrne

I think people are more discerning now, people are looking out into the world and seeing quite a lack of moral integrity with some of our leaders at the moment, and I think they can really see through wellbeing messaging that doesn't recognize how anxious people are feeling about the changes in the world. So I think wellbeing moving forward will really need to start to consider the sort of core underlying ethics of what it means to be human, what it means to build our social relations and to to thrive moving forward.

00:29:02:13 - 00:29:27:24

Laura Byrne

So I think the focus will shift from what, what, what programmes do we offer, to what do our behaviours say about who we are? We're living in an era of rapid change. And like you say, sort of economic volatility, climate anxiety, artificial intelligence, automation and all of these are really affecting people’s security, a sense of security, and meaning at work.

00:29:27:24 - 00:29:53:13

Laura Byrne

So I think we need to move beyond seeing wellbeing as managing stress and burnout to, but also how to build resilience, adaptability, purpose. How we manage the uncertainty and how we how we support each other through that? Through strong relationships, a sense of autonomy, giving people, you know, a sense of some control over their lives and, psychological safety.

00:29:53:13 - 00:30:17:13

Laura Byrne

I think leaders who do this, who recognize this, will thrive. And I do think the HR profession itself will evolve. So wellbeing no longer seen as a separate function, being a core part of organisational design and leadership, and I think the HR leader will be more strategic. More interested in, the social.

00:30:17:17 - 00:30:33:16

Helen Fitzhugh

Yeah. Great. So it's a fabulous vision. So, you know, in amongst all of that, if our listener takes only one simple message from what you said today, although, again, we always hope they'll take more, what would you want it to be?

00:30:33:18 - 00:30:56:16

Laura Byrne

So I think the one simple message would be that wellbeing starts and ends with human connection. So all the policies, frameworks, initiatives in the world, what they won't make much difference if people don't feel genuinely cared for, listened to and connected to those around them. And I think this comes to wellbeing isn't something that we deliver, we co-create.

00:30:56:21 - 00:31:28:05

Laura Byrne

It's a living thing within organisations, and it's about our everyday relationships, how we talk to each other, how we treat one another, how we respond when someone is struggling. So yeah, I think wellbeing needs to be seen legitimately as a as a broader practice within organisations, rather than just an add on, and if we can get that right, if we can improve our social relations and build trust and act too with integrity, then wellbeing becomes more than a strategy.

00:31:28:09 - 00:31:34:16

Laura Byrne

It just becomes part of who we are as as people within organisations.

00:31:34:18 - 00:31:47:06

Helen Fitzhugh

That's great. Laura, thank you so much. That's been such a rich conversation. And, I've taken a lot from it. So I'm sure our listener well as, as well. So thank you so much for contributing today.

00:31:47:08 - 00:31:52:15

Laura Byrne

Thank you very much for inviting me. It's been great to talk about these ideas.

00:31:52:17 - 00:31:57:21

Helen Fitzhugh

We'll put some links to your project in the blurb as well. So yeah, thank you very much.

00:31:58:00 - 00:32:01:08

Laura Byrne

Thank you.

00:32:01:10 - 00:32:12:06

Helen Fitzhugh

Please do visit www.evolveworkplacewellbeing.org. We look forward to seeing you next time.